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Thread: First post? I'm honored! Validation is important?

  1. #1
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    First post? I'm honored! Validation is important?

    Wow,

    I'm surprised that this is the first thread in this forum. Ok... Let me think of something I can babble about! Ummmmmmmm...

    Ok, here goes. When you code, how important do you think W3C validation is, whether it be for HTML or XHTML? Do you worry about that when you make a site? Personally, I do. If the page I'm making is somewhat important at all, I jump through amazing hoops to make sure it validates as XHTML and CSS. Do you guys?

    I think it's mainly important for cross-browser functionality as well. When I build a site, I test it in the most current versions of all major browsers, except Safari. I test in IE6, NS 7.02, Opera 7.11, Firebird 0.7, and Mozilla 1.4.

    I also make it general practice to make the code as clean and crisp as possible. I don't use WYSIWYG editors at all, but even if I were to do so, I would go into the code afterwords and clean it up. I think clean code is as important as anything else in design.

    Just some thoughts, everyone!

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  2. #2
    Full Member Reaction is on a distinguished road
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    Vaildation is definately important, also cross-browser functionality is something many sites are working on. Day by day people are drifting away from Internet Explorer and moving onto open-source browsers like mozilla and opera.

    Keeping code clean is important if you to plan to give the code to someone else or if you plan to edit the code in the future. The more cleaner your code is the more easier it is to read.

    btw... this is the first reply in the HTML/XHTML forums! woohoo!

  3. #3
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    Day by day people are drifting away from Internet Explorer and moving onto open-source browsers like mozilla and opera.
    True, and I'm happy to see it. I think there will be a MAJOR change in the browser climate since MS is no longer releasing future version of IE on it's own. Once the typical user realizes that they can't get IE unless they shell out $200 or more on a new MS OS, even basic users will start searching for another browser. Firebird is my personal choice. Opera is nice, but I only use it to test. I just love Firebird's speed and setup.
    Keeping code clean is important if you to plan to give the code to someone else or if you plan to edit the code in the future. The more cleaner your code is the more easier it is to read.
    I think it's equally important regardless of whether you give it out or not. It's just good coding practice to have clean code.
    But Opera 7.11 is the wost version of Opera, 'cos it displays the page not as Opera 6.x or Opera7.2x
    Good point! I think it's time to upgrade
    Don't use WYSIWYG editors! Even in critical situations!
    Just text editor! I use text editor with syntax highlight.
    So the code is also clean...

    Another tvery important thing is cozy code. Use spacers and or tabulations to majke code understandable.
    I don't scorn people that use WYSIWYG editors. I think there's nothing really wrong with them (except for FP, UGH), but I know that many pros prefer to do it by hand. I think that ultimately, if you have to do it for a living, WYSIWYG editors are necessary. However, it never hurts to go in after that and clean the code up manually.

    Spacers and tabs are definitely critical for crisp code, whether it's HTML, php, perl, or any other language.

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Full Member AdulteratedJedi is on a distinguished road
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    Validation is always important, it not only validates your code, but if your a newbie or even a veteran (albeit one who doesnít stick to standards) web designer it helps you learn the "proper" way of doing things, by showing you what your doing wrong.

    No matter what anyone says, i.e. the people at Microsoft, we should always code for standards. Whatever job one has there is always a right way and a wrong way to do things, some sort of standards are in place to make sure you do it the right way. This should be the same for people in our profession, and the W3C have tried to enforce these standards for our own good.

    The Standards set by the W3C arenít just about writing valid code, accessibility also comes into play. Your site should be able to be viewed by anyone no matter what browser or device they are using, thatís the way the internet was intended to be, and maybe one day it will be like this.

    I donít want to start a big rant, but WYSIWYG editors are just wrong, I can see the good side of using them, but for me there making the whole web design industry available to anyone, you donít have to be skilled anymore to make a web site. All you have to do is point and click, this is good as it means there are more web designers available but its bad for that very reason as well, and anyone can become a web designer nowadays. Who would you rather employ, someone who can point and click, or someone who understands the mark-up and syntax of the code? The major problem with WYSIWYG editors is that they never ever write valid code, and you always need to go in and edit it afterwards.

    AJ

  5. #5
    Newbie Xenos is on a distinguished road
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    Truthfully I think it depends on the nature of the site. I mean if your going to have 100 people visit the site, then Its prolly no big deal, a few errors here and there. But If your expecting tond of visitors, then yea, its importaint. I never validate my code, I just test it in different browsers. Perhaps it might not make it perfect, but if it works, and it gives me time to move on to something else, then what the hey?

    As for WYSIWYG editors, I never use them, I agree, to slopy. I might use it if I need to look at how something is done, but thats it. I'm currently re-doing my High School site because they used MSFP >.<, I'm just useing good ol' photoshop and Edit Plus.

  6. #6
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    The Standards set by the W3C arenít just about writing valid code, accessibility also comes into play. Your site should be able to be viewed by anyone no matter what browser or device they are using, thatís the way the internet was intended to be, and maybe one day it will be like this.
    Excellent point, sir! The web is supposed to be completely unbiased. With the help of the W3C, this can become a reality, I hope.

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  7. #7
    Full Member maverik60 is on a distinguished road
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    validation isnt important. as long as you can code your site to a decent standard is fine, IF you can code to w3c standards, thats just a +, i try to code my sites to the best of my abilites, although its very nice to

  8. #8
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    Well, I think that most people would argue that exactly what you said, "code your site to a decent standard" iswhat the W3C IS!

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    Full Member maverik60 is on a distinguished road
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    a decent standard. w3c is the best standard, if you put in a resume you can code to w3c standard your morelikely to get the job then someone with exact same skill as you with no w3c standard.

  10. #10
    That being said maverick some of the biggest and most expensive design sites cant seem to code to w3c standerd.s

  11. #11
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    Originally posted by robson
    That being said maverick some of the biggest and most expensive design sites cant seem to code to w3c standerd.s
    Well, there's one important thing you have to know, though. The biggest sites are NEVER just HTML, JS, & CSS. They are also php, cgi, Flash, ASP... When you get into those sorts of technologies, validation is not a possible thing.

    For instance, let's say you want to use Flash on your site (which, of course, many sites now do), there is no way to validate that page because embedding the Flash kills any possibility of validation. Even if all the surrounding code is valid, the page can't just because of the embedded Flash.

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    Full Member Interactive is on a distinguished road
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    Originally posted by WorldBuilder
    Well, there's one important thing you have to know, though. The biggest sites are NEVER just HTML, JS, & CSS. They are also php, cgi, Flash, ASP... When you get into those sorts of technologies, validation is not a possible thing.

    For instance, let's say you want to use Flash on your site (which, of course, many sites now do), there is no way to validate that page because embedding the Flash kills any possibility of validation. Even if all the surrounding code is valid, the page can't just because of the embedded Flash.

    Chris
    One more reason not to use Flash . Well it does have it advantages but still. I think validation is rather pointless, just as long as your layout shows up properly in all browsers.
    -Robert Norton
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  13. #13
    Active Member WorldBuilder is on a distinguished road
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    ...as long as your layout shows up properly in all browsers.
    That's the most important thing!

    Chris
    My Site | My Blog
    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
    "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
    --Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    Full Member Interactive is on a distinguished road
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    Originally posted by WorldBuilder
    That's the most important thing!

    Chris
    Ya, you're telling me .
    -Robert Norton
    http://www.HostComb.com - Find The Hosting Provider That Meets Your Needs

  15. #15
    Full Member whiteknight is on a distinguished road
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    well, i might sound like an idiot, but i'm going to ask a few questions anyway:

    1)how do you validate a site? is it different from just testing it in different browsers?

    2)what does WYSIWYG stand for? (i know what they are, iust dont know what the anagram stands for)

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